Welcome to Crazy and the King!!
July 7, 2022

Live from Londomore

Live from Londomore

Julie and Torin kick off RecFest week with a catch up on all this week's hot topics

Julie and Torin kick off RecFest week with a catch up on all this week's hot topics

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Production and Music: DJ Cellz


0:00:01.0 Announcer: We've been about this work, diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging shared through the voices of a white woman and a black man. We bring lived experiences. We have pursued the DE&I progress for most of our professional lives. We use Crazy and the King to cover news, tips from colleagues, and host incredible guests. Listeners count on Julie and I to transparently drive the conversation. We thank you for rocking with us. Check it. Julie, kick off the show.

0:00:35.1 Julie: Welcome to Crazy and the King, London 2022.

0:00:40.5 Torin: Wait a minute. No, no, it's not London 2022. It's Londore because I'm still in Baltimore, so we at least gotta be... We gotta be fair in how we split this ocean, this geography, so it will soon be London 2022, but right now it's Londore, so for all of you listening, I want you to go to Google real quick and see if you can find a place called Londore, and if you find a place called Londore, L-O-N-D-O-R-E, tweet Julie and I and put #CrazyAndTheKing or #CATK and put a link so we could click on it and see where the hell Londore is located. How you feeling?

0:01:27.9 Julie: Good, good at the time of this recording, just landed on a delayed flight and happy to be back, pumped about RecFest, I know by the time this... Actually, when this airs, we will... You and I will be on stage for the duration of the day in various stages, and to be a very, very fun day and we can decompress and catch everyone up on that next week.

0:01:52.8 TORIN: Yeah, and speaking of flights, I found this story last week, and it was an interesting story, so let me just read it to you, I can't even remember where I saw it, but I'm gonna at least put quotes around it because I don't want people to feel like I'm stealing someone else's content, and this story is... It was from a reader, her name is Ann W., she's from Charlottesville, Virginia, and she said, Julie, that, "My daughter was on a flight with her 14-month-old daughter who was overtired, refusing to nap and crying. Another passenger, a young woman named Jill, offered to hold the baby for a bit. The baby settled down, fell asleep in Jill's arms, and Jill held her until the plane was about to land, and anyone who has had an out-of-control baby on a plane can understand what a blessing this is." Now, you have children, J. Have your children ever clowned you on an airplane?

0:02:53.9 Julie: I'm pretty sure my children have clowned me everywhere...

0:02:58.3 TORIN: Everywhere, okay, got it, got it.

0:02:58.5 Julie: But on an airplane, I've been pretty lucky. Restaurants, no. Airplanes, pretty lucky.

0:03:03.3 TORIN: So Nicki reminded me, when I laughed about this story, she said, "Oh, you apparently don't remember when Nadia clowned us on a flight to Florida," and I was like, "No, I mean, tell me like what she did." And so she went into how Nadia would not... Because Nicki was breastfeeding, Nadia would not latch on, Nadia wouldn't take a pacifier, Nadia wouldn't take a bottle, so literally, the steward of the flight, while he is serving drinks, Nicki said he had Nadia on his hip and he was rocking with Nadia up and down the aisle, serving drinks and bouncing her, and she was quiet as a church mouse. The steward on the plane had to call... And I know I was probably somewhere in the corner, embarrassed. She's a baby, but I know I was probably like, "Can you please... Baby, be quiet. I don't want everybody looking at us because you are the reason why." But I shared it because we both... We enjoyed flights this week, and there was a scenario of a flight that was going... I think it was Delta, and Delta offered passengers on an overbooked flight from Michigan to Minnesota, according to The Columnist, Jason Aten, offered them $10,000 to give up their seat, so the question is, would you have given up your seat for 10 Gs, for 10 stacks?

0:04:39.6 Julie: From Minnesota to Michigan? Hell yes.

0:04:42.4 TORIN: Like a 30-minute flight, 40-minute flight.

0:04:47.6 Julie: Yeah, and then I'd have used it and turned around and bought myself some Delta One action on my next overseas trip. Hell yes.

0:04:53.1 TORIN: Let me tell you, there was a person on Twitter who said, "If they were to offer me $10,000, I would have stood up, walked out the door, down the steps, under the plane, grabbed my luggage and walked back in the airport, sat there... I would've walked back in the airport and sat my ass down." He said "For $10,000, I would've done everything that they were supposed to do for me and would've sat in that airport and waited for the very next flight for 10 stacks." J, I gotta tell you. There's not much that I wouldn't have done, I would have gotten off that plane.

0:05:31.2 Julie: Well, and I'm gonna tell you, there's no way it would have gotten to $10,000, I wanna meet the people on that plane who were like, "No. $8,000? No, not good enough. $9,000? Not good enough." And that they... That they actually got it to $10,000 is incredible.

0:05:48.4 TORIN: Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. So let's hit a couple of stories, and then we'll make it down to our first commercial break, which we absolutely appreciate each and every one of our sponsors, Jobvite, TalVista and Clinch. We really appreciate all of them. So Google is going to start auto-deleting abortion clinic visits from user location history, and I think that this is a really, really big deal, especially coming on the hills of our very strong conversation last week around Roe v. Wade, and shout-out to you Tracy Cole and everyone else who shared that episode, Chad, Sowash, who shared that episode around what we did, and I was feeling, I don't wanna use the word inferior, but I said it in the recording, like I wish that I just had more insight and more data and more reference points in the story, but it's not my life, it's not my circumstance, and so it's not something that I am a virtuoso at, but shout-out to those who shared our episode and conversation, and shout-out to Google for taking this step to try to protect women of all stripes across the entire country, I think that that's phenomenal on their part.

0:07:07.2 Julie: Yeah, and I think that it really gives us a much clearer idea, and we've had several instances this week that give us a clear idea of what the confusion of a post-real world looks like. Right? So we're already talking about states who are going to their legislators to try to ban interstate travel, which is directly in the Constitution, for women to be able to cross over state lines to get access to abortion services, we had a 10-year-old in Ohio who had to travel to Indiana to get an abortion this week.

0:07:47.2 TORIN: You said a 10-year-old?

0:07:49.0 Julie: A 10-year-old who was raped and was six weeks and three days pregnant and was refused service in Ohio.

0:08:00.2 TORIN: So just for a second, I don't wanna stay on this for a long time, but there's the commentary around... I can't remember who put the tweet up. Oh, my dear friend, Rebecca. She put up a tweet, she's a doctor, and basically she says, "A lot of the stories that we are... When we're talking about Roe v. Wade, we use the example of rape, the unwanted sex, and we tie that story to the Roe v. Wade piece." And what she said is, "I caution people around making that only or that singular reference because all women need the access regardless if they want it, and they just need that." So how do you feel about that?

0:08:47.0 Julie: I agree 100%, I think that we try to create characters that other humans might be able to empathize with or have sympathy for, versus some of the other stories that we're hearing this week about regularly prescribed drugs for other conditions now being denied in states by insurance because they could potentially cause a miscarriage or be used to induce an abortion, and so that's really where all the grey comes in, and I think the other thing that has really been hitting me this week, and I will tell you, transparency, I'm still processing it in a pretty raw way, is black and indigenous women are really putting white women in their place again, as 98% of the time we deserve to be put in our place about the lack of access and healthcare that women of color have experienced for the entirety of our nation, and then when the plug gets pulled on a white woman's right to have that same access is when we blow up. It's always a day late and a dollar short I think is the attitude from a lot of black and indigenous women.

0:10:08.8 TORIN: And I hear and I understand, it's hard for me to process, but I think that these are really important conversations that women and our allies need to be able to have together and have that real transparency and that real honesty because I think this is a... It will be a change moment for white women, and can we keep that energy alive like we're able to do with black women, especially in being our political advocates and allies and activists and showing up to vote every single time? It's an important conversation.

0:10:50.3 TORIN: Yeah, it is an important conversation. And let me tell you, I do understand the tension that you are referencing in your comment. When you are in that category that is being asked, that is being challenged, that is being criticized, if you will, and certainly there are other adjectives we can use to describe that action, that conversation that is happening, sometimes it's hard, that tension to divorce yourself from the emotional feeling, to just be able to look at it and say, "Okay, well, is there truth to that?" And what I say to people is, just look at the four gates of speech. If you Google the four gates of speech, or if you Google the five gates of speech, you'll come up with very succinct considerations, and this is what I challenge people to consider when information is coming at them that may not sit well with them, so thank you for sharing that, I appreciate that.

0:11:54.2 TORIN: I will say the Conference Board, the piece that they released, the survey, it asked a question, and basically the survey, Julie, was around professional development is key to retaining talent, that people of color report less access to professional development, and I think the seminal question in the survey was around...

0:12:17.0 TORIN: When asked, "How likely are you to leave your company for another if you do not receive the development opportunities you believe you need?" that was really just a seminal, simple, to me, core question. Like every single person working, growing, living, we wanna be developed, we wanna feel like there's some degree of growth in how we are showing up in our family, in our relationships, in our friendships, at work professionally, and they said that people of color, A, have less access and are more likely... They also went on to say other... Brown folks, Asian folks felt exactly the same. Like I don't see that as being so alarming. Let me clarify that, I see it as being alarming because we're talking about it, I see it as... It should just be central to, "If I'm going to hire you, I'm gonna develop you."

0:13:30.8 Julie: Yeah, I mean I think this... And we just see this, you and I work on the town acquisition side and the culture side so frequently is that talent is just throwaway. Once you're an employee, your value... It's like a new car. Right? I just thought of that. Hold on. It's like a new car. Right? As soon as you start day one and you get driven off the lot, your value plummets, and we see that. We see that happening in so many companies across the globe in the way that they treat talent, and it's not just black and brown talent, but we know that other systems and biases and discrimination amplifies that when it gets to black and brown talent, I don't see professional development happening in a lot of really important ways, so I think this is a fantastic analysis out from the Conference Board.

0:14:34.8 TORIN: Yeah, and I give a side eye, Julie, I saw a story over on People of Color in Tech, and the story says that racism could ruin the metaverse, and that was said by Blavity's CTO. Like racism could ruin the metaverse, I just have a side eye when people throw racism in comic characters, in cartoons, in superheroes. It's amazing to me that something that we deal with in real life finds its way into fiction, into fantasy. It's just... And I'm not discounting what he says, I think that it could very much so happen in... I mean it happens on social media, so why wouldn't it happen in the metaverse? It's just amazing to me that folks are that married to something so dangerous and negative and toxic.

0:15:33.1 Julie: Yeah, and speaking of negative, dangerous, and toxic, we have two stories on the disability side this week with Hobby Lobby facing a federal lawsuit after firing an employee who requested working with a service dog, the EEOC says, and we have our friends at the Society for Human Resources Management coming to a settlement to increase accessibility for people with disabilities, and in pure HR form, God love you guys, you drive me nuts, $220,000 to admit that you didn't do anything wrong, make sure that you sometime do transcripts and that you sometimes have sign language interpreters at your conferences, and you will work on finding some ways to increase accessibility for training, website, all of that. And then to go further and say, "We didn't really do anything wrong. We're just doing this to avoid the risk and uncertainty and inconvenience, and expensive further litigation." I would change that further litigation to having to deal with a quarter of the US population who also happens to be a person with a disability. Good job...

0:16:49.0 TORIN: Yeah, and you started those last two stories somewhere in the middle, you used the word "friend", so I think this is a great time for us to transition to one of our friends. Let's listen to an ad break, and then we'll be back with In A Flash.

0:17:12.8 TORIN: Alright, awesome. In A Flash, in an emotional meeting last week, nearly 100 years overdue, the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors voted five to zero to transfer ownership of the land to the great grandsons and great-great grandsons of Charles and Willa Bruce. Love that, and we talked about this earlier in the year. Charles and Willa Bruce bought some property dubbed Bruce's Beach back in 1912 in what would become the City of Manhattan Beach, California today. It is actually well-documented that this move under the guise of eminent domain was a racially motivated attempt to drive out the successful black business and its patrons, and that was said by the County Board of Supervisors in motion to completely return the land. One woman that will not be making our Her Voice segment is fugitive, Ruja Ignatova. She's known as the Crypto Queen, and she's wanted for her alleged role in running a cryptocurrency Ponzi scheme, defrauding investors out of more than $4 billion. The FBI is offering a reward, I don't know if you know them folks, but if you know them, you might be 10 stacks richer... Actually, 100 stacks richer.

0:18:29.6 TORIN: Not all teachers are made the same. Apparently, right in your neck of the country, J, Ms. Jane Pearson, she taught for 38 years, and if you have not seen the TikTok, I saw it over on parents.com, this education veteran made such a lasting impression on her students that 11 years after they first stepped foot in her classroom, they surprised Ms. Jane Pearson in her backyard as graduating seniors. You gotta just watch it because it just might make you smile or tear up a little bit.

0:19:05.4 TORIN: And last but not least, this week, the NAIDOC Awards will be handed out. The NAIDOC Awards are a celebration of aboriginal and Torres Strait islander strength, excellence, beauty, intelligence and commitment, and a few headlines that you may have missed, remote work availability for white-collar jobs is down, that's over on HR Dive, candidates abandon the recruiting process at shockingly higher rates, over on ERE, and how to avoid getting dragged into... Let me just keep the article the way said it, how to avoid getting dragged into meetings, Wall Street Journal. Definitely, definitely reading the last article.

0:19:51.3 TORIN: Let's continue talking, so the Conference Board piece for me, J, was interesting. Again, I said... And your analogy was great. It's a used car. When we bring folks in, in many instances, they begin to lose value. We talk so much about employee engagement. We talk so much around inclusion and equity surveys. We talk so much around professional development. Rescaling seems to be one of the words we love to throw out. How we need to upscale people, that's another one that we love to throw out. We use all of these flowery phrases, but when they looked at the 1,200 individuals in the study, and I believe the Conference Board did the study back in May, just two weeks, May 16th through the 31st, predominantly professional office workers, about 1,200 people, they found that folks of color had less access to being professionally developed. What they actually said was, some 68% of black respondents, 70% of Hispanic and Latin, Latina respondents, and 80% of Asian respondents said, "I'm gone. If you're not going to invest in me, I'm outta here. I'm looking for another place to hang my hat for 40, 50, 60, 80 hours a week." It makes sense to me.

0:21:27.4 Julie: Yeah, and I think that's the thing that also... There are so many little nuggets that I could pick up on from what you said, and the first one I would say is, all of the flowery words, if we really believed in those flowery words, we would actually be rescaling and upscaling our current workforce where it needs to be happening. And based on the sheer volume of openings, we know that that's not happening. We know that people are not being afforded the opportunity to grow within their current organization, and they have to. That means 70%, 71%, 87% are saying, "We're not getting it here." And that should be a wake-up call to employers who are having just outrageous time to fill metrics right now and having outrageous cost of vacancy that they could be avoiding and we're just not spending the time, and I think part of it is that HR and TA, they're always very reactive. That's not proactive because...

0:22:43.2 TORIN: But are they always reactive?

0:22:46.6 Julie: Yeah, I have not met... And I don't know all of the HR people in the world, so take it for what it's worth, I have not met HR professionals that are treating themselves and pitching themselves as profit centers, basically. The business doesn't exist without the people. They're always going with a bigger hand to say "We need more, we need more to do this, to do that," without proving the business case. And when you start to change that conversation about why TA is worth investing in, why our people are worth investing in, why these things happen, you start to change the mentality of how you do your job and how you see the position that you're in. And so I will say in a stereotypically vague fashion that I don't see HR and TA people making the case for why they need to be resourced to be more proactive, and I think it's cyclical.

0:23:53.0 TORIN: Yeah, that's interesting because I think about the work that we do under TE, the team, the consulting that we are doing, trying to help organizations to better operationalize and optimize their DE&I, their DEIB. We do absolutely advocate heavily for changing the narrative in the conversation and not feeling as if you are or should just be happy that you're giving a little bit, if you will. You should be far more vocal about taking risk, trying new things, establishing new relationships. We absolutely advocate for challenging status quo protocol, "This is procedural, the way that we've always done it." I absolutely... I struggle only with your statement in the sense of HR and TA are reactive because I try to think... And perhaps this is the good side of me, I wanna give more of them the benefit of the doubt. They've sat under the voice of... Listen, I'm not gonna call any names because I don't wanna leave any people out, and I don't wanna say some folks' names, and I don't necessarily know their entire footprint, their background, but there are some folks, and we all know them, that are almost at every conference, they're on the stage all the time, always speaking, and I'm speaking for those that are either in HR or TA and maybe... Yeah, just stay there, HR and TA.

0:25:42.4 TORIN: And I know for the last three to five years, J, they've been saying, "You all can't be reactive. You have to be able to show your business unit, your department as a profit centre. You are adding something to the business." And in that, J, it requires you to have a different conversation, so I wanna say that they've been listening, but then again, I say, we've also been generating reports of the business case of diversity and inclusion. And shit, they still aren't doing that, so maybe I don't... Maybe I'm unfair in taking issue with what you're saying.

0:26:31.5 Julie: Yeah, I mean I think that you and I have such a vast circle of people that we run around with, that's a very '80s term, run around with together professionally, but also outside of those circles, that we bring a unique perspective to it, and I'm certainly being broad, and probably unfairly so, so it's good that you be the good angel on my shoulder every once in a while. But I do think, the other thing that you hit on, and it's broader than just HR and TA, but I would say employees in general, I don't... I feel like they need to be a little more greedy, let me put it that way.

0:27:21.0 TORIN: Explain that, I like that.

0:27:23.1 Julie: So there is an article in the Wall Street Journal this week about how basically, anyone who's been in the job or been employed, let me try it again, since 2010, as their first jobs, they're about to experience whatever recession is coming and that their bosses are not gonna be begging them to come to work and giving them everything that they want and just being happy that they provided an application... And I just read that article and I went, "When the fuck did hiring managers and corporations start being so grateful for you applying for a job? Everyone's still going into the black hole. It's still a shitty candidate experience. Right?" And already the powers that be that the Wall Street Journal is saying, "Hey, this isn't enough. You are already getting too much, so be prepared to get even a lot less." And when I'm talking to employees that we work with all of the time at Disability Solutions and in other organizations, there is a desire to be taught leadership, to be developed, to have access, even if that doesn't necessarily include the promotion, it is the lateral move that eventually gets that promotion. There is hunger for that but people are very reticent sometimes, I think, to say so because...

0:28:51.2 Julie: And I would say, especially in my experience, again, with women of color who are hesitant to be labelled as angry black women, as being overly aggressive, as thinking that they've already got a pretty good lot, they don't wanna push the envelope, and I think that collectively, employees need to push the envelope. They need more. We deserve more. We deserve that recognition, and honestly, it can't always come in dollars, a lot of times it should, but it should come in those opportunities to have professional development so that if you move on to the next role, whether it's at this company or the next one, you've had that experience. We need to start demanding that, I think.

0:29:39.7 TORIN: Culture is the big banner. Culture is like the airplane that's in the sky that has the flag behind it that makes an announcement, if you will. Culture is up top, and I always say that culture is not something that the organization necessarily creates, I think culture is created inside of individuals' condition and circumstances, I say that often, and I think that we bring that to the workplace. In my circumstances, I wanna be developed, I wanna be poured into, I wanna be resourced, I wanna be supported. Cynthia Owyoung, I think it's Owyoung actually. It's O-W-Y-O-U-N-G. Cynthia Owyoung, she says in her new book, "All Are Welcome: How to Build A Real Workplace Culture of Inclusion That Delivers Results." Now, Cynthia is the Vice President of Inclusion, Equity and Belonging over at Robinhood, and she says basically that targeted leadership development, ones that explore growth through the perspective of professionals from overlooked demographics and who may be bringing in some culturally specific concerns could make a huge difference. Leadership programs need to move past assimilation to help employees learn the strategies they need to employ to be their authentic selves as leaders, and that's what professional development is all about.

0:31:10.5 TORIN: It may not be leadership as in title, but people want to know that they are being poured into because it is helping them to be a better... We'll use leader as the catch-all, but it'll make me be a better employee, it'll make me be a better team member, better collaborator, better strategic thinker. If I am being resourced and developed, I know that I am showing up in a better place for my organization.

0:31:42.1 TORIN: Finally, let's close it out, but I think that closing it with some thoughts from Dr. Jessica Kriegel are important, and Jessica says, Dr. Kriegel, I'm sorry, respectfully, Dr. Kriegel says that you can measure culture, and she says that it's strategy times culture equals performance, and she gives eight things for us to consider. She says, access to information is important, hierarchical structure is important, horizontal integration, responsibilities to employee, responsibilities to organization, and the final two are rewards and punishment, and performance management. You can measure your culture if you are looking at those eight factors. Again, her name is Dr. Jessica Kriegel, she's a highly recognized innovator, consultant. And thought leader on quantifying workplace culture.

0:32:41.1 TORIN: So I think that the Conference Board survey is a good, quick read. Again, it happened just this year in May. They looked at or talked to, reached out to 1,200 individuals. You can find the survey. We'll put the link in the show notes. You can go to conference-board.org. Again, conference-board.org. Or you can follow the Conference Board because they do some really, really amazing work on Twitter, @ConferenceBoard. Again, on Twitter, @ConferenceBoard.

0:33:15.4 Julie: Awesome. Let's catch our next ad break and jump into Her Voice.

0:33:22.2 TORIN: Her Voice is where we amplify women that are making moves, and we got a long list to start with this week, J, so I want you to do this one, I want you to knock out this long list right here.

0:33:35.5 Julie: Alright, this week, we start with a few swift kicks, a hell of the defense, a flip here and another flip there, and the White House. Megan Rapinoe and Simone Biles will receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Other women on the list, only fair we announce their names as well, Sr. Simone Campbell, Julieta Garcia, Gabriel Giffords, Sandra Lindsay, who's a critical care nurse, Diane Nash, and Brig. Gen. Wilma Vaught, one of the most decorated women in the history of the US military who repeatedly broke gender barriers as she rose through the ranks. When she retired in 1985, she was one of only seven women generals in the armed forces.

0:34:21.8 TORIN: And we have NBC Universal President of Distribution and Business Development, Maggie McLean Suniewick. She is leaving the peacock for the blue bird. She's joining Twitter in the newly created role of Vice President of Partnerships, so if you are listening and you are in an organization that desires a new partnership with Twitter, hit up Maggie McLean Suniewick.

0:34:47.6 Julie: Alright, and then we have, DoorDash has hired Pinky Cole, who we've chatted about before, owner and founder of vegan hamburger chain, Slutty Vegan, as Chief Restaurant Advisor.

0:34:58.4 TORIN: Yes indeed. Shout-out to you, Pinky Cole. She has Baltimore roots, I don't know if you knew that.

0:35:03.4 Julie: I thought she might.

0:35:06.7 TORIN: And ABC News correspondent, Kaylee Hartung, she's our last Her Voice being amplified this week, but she's leaving the news outlet, ABC News, to join Amazon as the streamer's first ever Thursday Night Football sideline reporter. Now, I'm curious, J, have you ever watched Thursday Night Football on Amazon?

0:35:32.1 Julie: I have.

0:35:32.3 TORIN: You have?

0:35:33.2 Julie: Yeah.

0:35:34.8 TORIN: Interesting, so this year, you are going to be able to see Kaylee Hartung as the first ever to do sideline reporting on the channel. Love that, love that, love that. We don't have any quick mentions this week, but we do have Disability Twitter, and let me tell you something, I am so glad that you and I agreed to put this new segment in to our episodes because it just continues to keep me close to the community, a community that is often overlooked, not talked about enough, and reminds me of some of the things that I am able to take for granted. Oh, did you see what I just did there? I am able to take for granted. Reminds me of some of the things I am able to take for granted, so this week, Rachel Cupples is doing her networking thing on the Twitters and she's actually asking people to connect with her, I love that Rachel put this tweet out, and I made sure that I retweeted it earlier in the year... Earlier in the week, and if I remember, I'm gonna try to go back and retweet it one more time before Saturday.

0:36:42.1 Julie: And then we have a short thread dealing with all things... Or of all things, grocery shopping from Nicole_Lee_SCH, which we will post on our Facebook and Instagram feed this week.

0:36:57.6 TORIN: And then last but not least, this one comes from Izzy the Trash Activist. Her Twitter handle is pretty long, so let me just say, if you go out and find Izzy the Trash Activist, she asked a question, she says, "How do I reach #DisabilityTwitter? Because I want to fly to Rome in August. I'm afraid they won't let me board the plane or stay on if I'm having abnormal movements or convulsive episodes. My doctors will write a note, but I'm very afraid. Has anyone ever convulsed on a plane?" And again, I know that every once in a while, you might have a seizure or some scenario, but what it sounds like from Izzy the Trash Activist is that this is a more consistent happening for her, something that she cannot control, and she's absolutely afraid. And here's the deal, J, the same way that we started the show, she's not gonna be one of those individuals offered $10,000 if she's asked to be removed or if she's removed from the plane. One of the things that I don't have to think about and others do. Shout-out to all of the folks that we highlight in Disability Twitter and everyone else that is using the hashtag, and to each and every one of you, reminding you that you too can be a part of the solution. Get on Twitter, do #DisabilityTwitter and find out what's going on.

0:38:36.7 TORIN: So listen, I close reminding each and every one of you to share the pod with your digital tribe and to find your voice, be a better human. Let's create a better culture, better teams, better workplaces. For now, J and I are ghost.

0:38:52.6 Julie: See you.