Welcome to Crazy and the King!!
April 14, 2022

Kentucky "Jer" From Planet Fitness


Tackling pay transparency, workplace BMI challenges and EEOC news

Julie and Torin take a light hearted attitude this week with some workplaces fails that will make you laugh....and cringe. Plus, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) catches up, half way, on gender identity and Biden makes a big nomination to fill an open commissioner role.

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Production and Music: DJ Cellz



0:00:01.0 Announcer: We've been about this work: Diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, shared through the voices of a White woman and a Black man. We bring lived experiences. We have pursued DEIB progress for most of our professional lives. We use Crazy and The King to cover news, textural colleagues and host incredible guests. Listeners, count on Julie and I to transparently drive the conversation. We thank you for rocking with us. Check it. Julie, kick off the show.


0:00:38.5 Julie: Welcome, welcome, welcome to Crazy and The King.

0:00:43.1 Torin: I was actually sitting back this week... Well, when I say this week, part of last week and this week, and I asked myself a question. And I'm actually gonna ask the question out loud to you and I want to see what your response is, because I didn't really have a response. And here was the question. The question, J, was, "Why do people listen to Crazy and The King?" Are they listening to Crazy and The King because we are doing a great job of recapping or perhaps introducing them to stories that really did miss their radar? Are they listening because they want our take on those stories? Are they listening because they are looking to us, listening from us, ways to be better around diversity and inclusion? Why are people listening to Crazy and The King? That was my question last week and part of this week. What would you say to that?

0:01:50.0 Julie: I feel like that's something that we should know. From what I hear, it's an all of the above. They like it when we do the history and tie the history together like we did last week. I think they like that we have different views than a lot of what they're hearing out in the DEIB space. We help them to understand where DEIB and inequity and all of those things exist in places they haven't seen them before, and I think that they just think we're really fucking cool. So, they listen to us.

0:02:32.0 Torin: Yeah, it was one of those things that I pondered. And I pondered it in a way where I didn't feel like I needed to have a concrete answer, because to your point, I said, "I think that they like our take, our honest observation on some of these subjects and whatnot." I felt like that was the premier reason for them listening. But then the critical side of me was asking in the sense of, should we be doing more of something? Should we be developing more of a show that is a learning and development show or a training-centric show? So the critical side of me was also there like two people, one person on each shoulder type thing.

0:03:31.2 Torin: But again, I walked away not necessarily answering it. I just thought that I would share that with you because I like the way that we do the show, but it's not so much... Or it's not only about my liking it, your liking it. It really is about their liking it. And so if you are out there listening and you're new to Crazy and The King, I'd love for you to maybe go back, go to crazyandtheking.com or to places where you consume your podcast content, and I'd love for you to just dot through. Don't do it sequentially, but dot through some of the listens. Grab something from 2022, grab a couple more from 2021, and then just grab one, just one, from 2019. You want to do anything? Yeah, 2019. Just grab one from 2019 so you can really see how far Julie and I have come in terms of content and conversation and personality, and all of those things. Good to be with you another week. How you feel?

0:04:37.3 Julie: Yes, yes. Good. Home from Portugal now for a few weeks, so a little bummed about that. Arm is healing up. Things are busy, things are good, and we'll be headed to Brussels in a few weeks for HR Congress with House of HR. So not letting any grass grow under my feet.

0:05:03.3 Torin: Well, I'm feeling good. The pollen is in the air, you got all kinds of little leaves and what not flying around. I'm still wearing hoodies because for whatever reason, we just can't seem to get it all the way right, here in Baltimore. Literally, I went running last weekend and I'm outside in what I consider to be long-sleeve sweat gear and I'm like, "It's freezing out this joint." And you don't want to stop your run and workout because you're cold. How does that work? When you just say, "Well, I didn't work out because I was cold." You don't feel like you really are accomplishing anything, but I hope that by the end of this week we are full-blown spring and we can begin to enjoy. We got some events coming up, which we'll talk about down in our before or what you need to know before we end the show. Well, that's not really what it's called, but I actually I kinda I like that. What you need to know before we end the show. Say that again.

0:06:13.0 Julie: Open it.

0:06:14.0 Torin: What you need to know before we end the show. Love that.

0:06:15.8 Julie: Before we end the show. It could be a thing. It could be a thing.

0:06:20.0 Torin: Well, I'ma tell you, right now, what you need to know is that the ladies are running this joint. The headline said, "All female newsroom launched in Somalia to widen the media's scope." You don't even need to read the story to get a sense of the value and the shift in narrative that's going to take place when you say, it said all women room of reporters, journalists, commentators, all women that are going to focus on stories that are not necessarily told through their perspective in Somalia, I just smiled, I said, "This is absolutely beautiful." Period.

0:07:12.6 Julie: Yeah, I think it would be a big deal in the US if we had an all-female news team, right? But let alone in a very, very conservative society like Somalia, where issues like rape, sexual assault, and our health needs as women are often ignored if not sometimes accepted. So, I think this is phenomenal, so it's what? A team of six will produce the content for TV, radio, online, where they're gonna talk about gender-based violence, women in politics, lift up those female entrepreneurs. I love it.

0:07:55.9 Torin: Yeah, let me tell you, I actually went out... The editor-in-chief, her name is Nasrin Mohamed Ibrahim Nasrin, that's N-A-S-R-I-N. Nasrin Mohamed Ibrahim and I actually went and tried to pull some clips, I think I spent 40 minutes just popping through clips on YouTube, on Facebook, found a couple on Twitter, but unfortunately, we wouldn't have understood her.

0:08:22.4 Julie: Yeah.

0:08:23.1 Torin: We could have played them, she was speaking in her natural language, we could have played them, and for our audience and listeners that understand the language, they would have been... It would have been a surprise because I don't think we've played clips, but it was beautiful. Just listening to the dialect, listening to her intensity, and it's one of those things where as I was listening, and the only reason I did it for 40 minutes because I knew after 10 that none of what she was gonna say was gonna be in English. I knew that after five or 10 minutes, but I kept listening J, because I always say to you, what I love most about doing D&I work is trying to insert myself into other cultures, other communities and learning. And so, I just took it in. I was listening to take it in and watch the facial expression, watch the body language, watch her...

0:09:21.9 Torin: What do you call it? Emotive, if you will, just how intense was she? How interested, how alluring or inviting, that's the word that I'm looking for, was she with the person that she was talking to around whatever the subject was, because again, I couldn't understand her, but I said, "She is going to build a powerhouse team." And when you think about... I actually went out and did some Googling of stats around gender-based violence, and I didn't want to sensationalize just that one aspect. So rather than kind of pull those numbers in and paint a negative story about the Somalians or about their country or their community, I said, "I don't really have the bandwidth to properly pull data in on all of that." Like gender-based violence, women in politics in Somalia, women entrepreneurs and founders in Somalia, health issues in Somalia, I didn't get a chance to really do all of that.

0:10:25.4 Torin: So I said, "I'm just gonna kinda escape that." But if you're out there listening and you go to the UN's website and perhaps some of the others out there, and you start playing around, putting in some of those fragments of the sentence around some of the subject matter that those six women... And I'm sure the thing is gonna quickly grow, and it's gonna quickly grow because they're not in it for money. That's one of the things that they said in the story, they're not doing this because they wanna make money, they're doing it because they wanna amplify and raise their voice, and they wanna shift the narrative around how stories are told about Somalian women. I think it's beautiful.

0:11:03.7 Julie: Yeah, yeah it's incredible. I'm really curious to your thoughts on this next story. So, the Attorney General of six states are urging the NFL to improve conditions for its female employees or face a broad investigation, according to a letter sent to NFL commissioner, our favorite, Roger Goodell, Tuesday of this week.

0:11:30.0 Torin: Okay, so I'm gonna need some help from you.

0:11:32.3 Julie: Okay.

0:11:32.5 Torin: When you say, "I'm a little curious," curious about what? 'Cause you know how I feel about the NFL. And I feel like so much of what the NFL does is performative, it's topical in nature, they're not willing to really get in and disrupt the relationship that they have with the owners and/or disrupt the power structure that the owners have over the league. I don't think that they're really serious about doing that, fragmenting that, so when you say you're curious, curious about what?

0:12:04.2 Julie: So, and I'm gonna dare to just sound a bit insensitive, so bear with me as I say this out loud for the first time.

0:12:10.7 Torin: Okay.

0:12:10.9 Julie: So the letter, it's about female staffers, how they're treated, how they're sort of engaged around domestic violence, and if they've been victims of domestic violence, blah, blah, blah. And to me, it's like kind of what you said about the Rooney Rule a couple of weeks ago. It's like, "Hey, why are women being included in the Rooney Rule when really, we know that Black coaches aren't advancing, why focus on that?" And this is like, "We solve all of these race issues that are not being addressed by the NFL, and now we're gonna curve again to look at female employee issues." And not necessarily that the NFL is doing that, but it's just like, are we so worried about everything that we're missing kind of this piece which is gonna affect the majority of players and staff and instead focusing on things like for women. I don't even know if I'm saying that right but it's just like, there are so many fucking problems in the NFL. Can we not focus on getting the biggest one fixed before we start knocking out the next ones? Again, I could just be being completely insensitive and that's not the way that I mean it, this is important...

0:13:41.3 Torin: Yeah.

0:13:41.4 Julie: But it's always sort of changing the narrative, changing the conversation to go away from the primary issue which is the racism that is prevalent throughout the NFL Association.

0:13:56.1 Torin: And what some of our listeners may not be aware of, and there was a study out, I can't remember the title of the study and this is one of those things where I want Julie and I to get better. Let me just speak for myself, I most certainly wanna get better about feeling like I can go to Google, I can research what it is that I'm looking for, you might hear my keyboard clicking and pausing and then I come back. That's one of those things that I wanna get better about in the story, but in each of our episodes. But there was a story like last June or July, and it talked about how there was a particular study that the NFL did and they categorized Black players as being less than smart, intelligent, capable as they entered into the League. Therefore, because they were already at a deficiency, well, certainly at the end of their career, they don't need as much as a White player because they didn't experience as much of a decline. That's basically what they're saying.

0:14:58.4 Julie: Yeah.

0:14:58.5 Torin: Their brain is getting rattled around in that helmet, their decline in health and cognitive ability and some of the others was not as serious of a decline as that of their White colleagues, White teammates, if you will. I only insert that because of what you just said, but I disagree with you.

0:15:21.5 Julie: Okay.

0:15:21.6 Torin: I believe that we and that NFL and that any other organization should be tackling as many of the issues that are prevalent as possible. Tackling those issues at the systemic level and not the topical level, which I mentioned a moment ago. And if we're going to address in this instance, and I don't think either of us have said it, but the letter cited allegations that women staffers were forced to watch a video of the former running-back of the Baltimore Ravens right here, Ray Rice, who knocked out his then fiancée in an elevator. And that video went viral, that video is what caused him to be placed out of the League and whatever else came along with that. It happened some several years ago, probably five or six years ago, if you will. But that video is what these women staffers were forced to watch and apparently somebody complained. And now you have six states, New York Attorney General, Letitia James being one of them, you have six states where the Attorney Generals sent the letter saying, "Wait a minute, you gotta do a better job of protecting the women that are employed in the NFL." Not only were they forced to watch the video J, but they were also asked publicly, have they ever been abused in any way? Okay...

0:17:07.4 Julie: Yeah.

0:17:08.4 Torin: That being said J, I think we can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. I think that this is one of those issues where we can look at the disparity surrounding Black head coaches and other Blacks in leadership in and throughout the NFL. I think we can look at the health disparities associated with CTE, I think that we can look at the misogynistic, paternalistic, quandary that enveloped too many women. I think we can look at all three of them and probably, could look at a couple more at the same damn time. That's the way that I feel.

0:17:52.6 Julie: All right, I like it. It'll be interesting to watch. To me, it's just the dumb shit that the NFL just keeps doing. Why in the holy hell would you ever, as the former employer of Ray Rice, show that video? Who in HR thought that was a good idea?

0:18:15.4 Torin: Yeah, I just... When I saw the story I was like, I said, "Yo, this is like some crazy level case study stuff."

0:18:29.4 Julie: Yeah, yeah.

0:18:31.4 Torin: It was... I literally stood there for a moment J and I was like, "Why did they say... What was the thought around this violence is what's going to help women?" I just... I can't answer it.

0:18:51.6 Julie: I got nothing. Nothing.

0:18:53.0 Torin: I can't answer it.

0:18:53.4 Julie: Nothing.

0:18:55.2 Torin: Base10 real quick, we often talk about how Black and Brown founders are under-funded, under-capitalized, how they are shut out of the financial systems, and I wanna celebrate a good story because we don't talk about it enough. And so Base10 becomes the first Black-led VC firm to cross the $1 billion AUM with their new fund. One bill is good. It was founded in 2018 and Base10 is led by managing partners Adeyemi Ajao and TJ Nahigian. Nahigian, and that's N-A-H-I-G-I-A-N. J, do you ever get mad at when I'm over here spelling these damn names?

0:19:43.9 Julie: Dan, dude. No, I'm just glad that you're spelling them and I'm not doing it. [laughter]

0:19:50.3 Torin: Okay, okay. 'Cause that's a military thing for me. I'm like, I'm always... Anyway, never mind. So, crossed the one billion dollar mark, beautiful thing for Adeyemi and for TJ, and I appreciate what they are doing with their brand new fund, so check out Base10. And that'll do it for Small Talk this week. We'll do a quick commercial break and then J and I will be right back in a flash.


0:20:23.3 Torin: Awesome. So in a flash, let's talk about technology gone wrong. Apple's AirTags, small coin-sized tracking devices, are being used to stalk and harass women. According to records obtained from eight police departments, women called the police in 50 cases after receiving notifications through their Apple devices that their location was being tracked with an AirTag they did not own. Citi, led by CEO Jane Fraser, is the sole provider of credit cards used by the Chamber to pay for flights, supplies and other goods. When I say Chamber, political chamber, and some House Republicans are calling for Citi to lose that contract, because the company, Citi, has offered to pay for flights for employees seeking an abortion in restrictive states. Go figure. And it looks like some small, small sum, but some are trying to address income inequality. Ownership works supported by more than 60 banks, pension funds and others aims to create $20 billion in wealth for lower level workers over the next 10 years. Their leadership says this is essential to financially elevating working families, improving racial equity, and creating better alignment among workers, management and shareholders. $20 billion in wealth for lower level workers. It's nice for us to end on a good note.

0:22:05.0 Julie: So when I think about the reasons why people listen to Crazy and the King, sometimes I hope it's just because of silly ass shit that we bring to their attention that gives them a good laugh. Maybe they learn something. Maybe, maybe. I hope that you do, but sometimes I think in DEI, we just all need a good laugh. And Kate Bischoff had a couple of fantastic finds on Twitter this week. And if you don't follow Kate, start because you are missing out. She is one of our favorites collectively, I know. You can find her on Twitter at Kate... Sorry. K, the number 8, B-I-S-C-H, and she's an employment attorney with some common sense. And I didn't know this, I think it might be new, but she has a podcast and it's called the Hostile Work Environment, so...

0:23:09.2 Torin: Wow, I didn't know that.

0:23:11.6 Julie: I'm gonna check that out. Hopefully, we can have Kate on the show, but I'm gonna guess that it will make me both laugh and cringe and cry.

0:23:18.2 Torin: Yeah, I didn't know that. So it's called Hostile Work Environment. Okay, love that. Funny story real quick before you tell us what Kate tweeted out. The first time I saw her Twitter handle, I was actually... You know how you clutch your pearls? Look, I clutched my little draw string on the hoodie because I said, "Is this lady calling herself the B-word?" I really had to look at it a couple of times and then I said, "Alright." So I was real hesitant to say her name out loud because I didn't want to offend or say the wrong thing. But what did she tweet this week?

0:23:53.8 Julie: Oh my God. Now I'm always gonna call her Biiisch! [laughter]

0:24:00.4 Torin: I'm just saying. It was like one of the things, like for... It was probably a year before... And let me tell you, probably the first time I ever said her name out loud is when I interviewed her a couple of years ago and that interview was the first time that I had ever talked to her live. But when I heard her pronounce her name, I was like, "Okay, I'm good now. I got it. I got it." So what did she tweet?

0:24:22.4 Julie: Okay. So this first one is a sign. It's a picture of a sign that was posted on a workplace wall, which actually I learned later was a Planet Fitness in the great State of Kentucky, a place known for bringing out the best in their people.

0:24:38.3 Torin: And Bourbon.

0:24:40.8 Julie: [chuckle] They make good Bourbon. And it says: "Attention, all subordinates," which is a fantastic way to start, "Effective immediately, conversing about wages both off and on duty is strictly forbidden. If you are heard listening about... " Or, I'm sorry, "If you're heard talking about or listening to someone speak about wages, you will be disciplined up to and including your termination. And finally, just as a reminder in the great State of Kentucky that we are an at-will state, which means we can fire you for any reason or no reason at all. Have questions? Call Jared."

0:25:34.3 Torin: You got to be... And you know, I had to go to Kate's page right now. I'm actually looking to see if I can find it, to see what she might have also put in the comments up under it, I'm scrolling. But it's amazing that here we are in 2022, you have websites like salary.com, payscale.com and others, you have a number of tech people and folks from other industries that are drawing up old school, kitchen table Excel spreadsheets, grabbing folks' numbers and putting it out there for everybody to see, there is no... You got legislation in states, there is no possible way you can think that you would have an environment where folks are not going to talk openly about compensation. That's what makes it funny because it's so real. That's what makes it so incredibly funny.

0:26:35.1 Julie: It's so incredibly funny, the National Labor Relations Board, the EEOC, there are plenty of federal protections out that say, we can absolutely talk about what our pay is, and you absolutely cannot, even in the State of Kentucky, retaliate against me for disclosing or asking about pay and expecting that transparency. And it's even gonna just continue to your point with indeed pushing now for wage information to be a requirement on job descriptions to be posted there. And so just the silly ass things that people think that they can get away with because they're the boss and the best part, which I didn't even put in here was that the employees of the Planet Fitness in Kentucky, who I'm just gonna give a little shout out to this week, said, "Hey Jared, you can't do that, here's the regulation that says you can't. And by the way, here's what everyone makes, at least of those that wanted to tell us, the rest of your subordinates are out today. Yours truly, $10.50 an hour, Jenny."

0:27:54.8 Torin: That's right.

0:27:55.9 Julie: And posted it back. Just brought it full circle to good old Jared from Planet Fitness.

0:28:02.3 Torin: That's right, that's right, that's right. She also tweeted again. I'm sorry, Kate didn't tweet, but somebody else tweeted, and this one is definitely good. This one is a definite good find. So you found one from Nithin Kamath, and how do you... What's the name of the company? Zerodha?

0:28:26.1 Julie: I think so.

0:28:27.4 Torin: Okay, so Nithin is founder and CEO of Zerodha, it's ZeroD-H-A, an Indian-based brokerage firm. And in the tweet, it says, "We are running a fun health program at Zerodha." Anyone on our team with a BMI less than 25 gets a half month salary as a bonus. The average BMI on our team is 25.3. And if we can get to less than 24 by August, everyone gets another half month's bonus. It'd be fun to compete with other companies. So, how do you feel about getting paid to get healthy?

0:29:24.8 Julie: I love the idea of getting...

0:29:26.1 Torin: Wait a minute, wait a minute. And is that healthy? Because there are a lot of people who take issue with these body mass index scales and all of that. So, you're a runner, you're pretty fit. So, how did this tweet land with you?

0:29:48.8 Julie: So probably different than you would expect, so I love... It brought me back to our conversations about the Edelman Trust Barometer, and employees trust their leaders right now more than anyone else, more than the other institutions, more than the NGOs, more than the government. And at least in America, we have an obesity crisis that is hurting us, so my initial is like, "Eww! I know that's a bad idea to do it that way. But how could we better use the organizations that we trust," which are our employers right now, "to help drive societal change around getting healthy?" Now, this is a complete fail, BMI is not a good way to evaluate whether you're healthy, it kind of focuses on that time frame and yo-yo dieting and all that stuff. But at its base, I think it's well-intended, and I would be very interested to hear how we might be able to do that correctly.

0:31:05.6 Torin: Yeah, I agree with you 1000%. I thought the essence of what he was trying to drive that spirit of competitiveness, that collegial becoming healthy or healthier, I think healthier is probably the better characterization, I think that that's something that we should celebrate. And certainly, coming from a community, African-American community where when we look at some of the health disparities, we have on one side of the conversation, challenges with the health care system. On another side of the conversation, when you are looking at some of these diseases and categories, especially those that are detrimental to us, deadly to us, we are at the top. We are faring the worst, if you will, and I know it's conflicting because some of that is driven by how we are and are not diagnosed or misdiagnosed, mistreated. I get it, I get it, I get it, but there's also some degree of responsibility that we must all take. And how did I start the show? I started the show with, "Listen, it's cold out here. How does it look for me to stop my run just because I'm cold? I'm out here now, so let's just keep going." And in the end, hopefully it contributes to where I'm trying to go in terms of a result and being on the journey. So I just kind of smiled because he just didn't word it right, that's all.

0:32:41.6 Julie: Yeah. So thanks, Kate, for bringing some entertainment to our listeners today. Don't forget to follow Kate on Twitter. And also, join me in checking out her new podcast. A couple other really quick notes before we wrap up this week. So some big news from the EEOC that they are adding an X to their gender discrimination complaint form. So, they'll have female, male and X in that discrimination complaint form, just kinda continuing to advance on transgender rights, non-binary rights, a lot of which kind of started with Bostock versus Clayton County, Georgia, where [0:33:23.4] ____ Gorsuch ruled that employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity is illegal under the Civil Rights Act.

0:33:34.9 Torin: Yeah, we talked about that. I didn't have a chance to do the research, but that had everything to do with an employee at a funeral home, and we talked about that a couple of years ago.

0:33:45.2 Julie: We did, we did, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. What's interesting, I think, what's gonna have to be the next step is that... Well, they've made this form, they haven't addressed the EEO-1 form, which if you're not in that land of compliance, it's basically how you report out your race and gender data. And so they're still only offering female and male on that EEO-1 form. So we're gonna have to see that take the next step in the evolution for the EEOC. And we also saw an interesting appointment that just came out, or nomination, excuse me, this week, something else we talked about on Crazy and the King a couple of years ago. So the creator of the Hollywood inclusion rider, Rider, which was basically a legal clause that allows actors to embed requirements into their contract with film production studio, stipulating that the studio will guarantee a certain level of diversity for the project. So that woman, Kalpana Kotagal, K-O-T-A-G-A-L, was nominated to the EEOC by President Biden in April.

0:35:05.5 Torin: Yeah, the inclusion rider originally came out back in 2018, and just for clarity, or strength of clarity to Julie's point, the inclusion rider talks about hiring in front of as well as behind the camera. And behind the camera is where a lot of the decisions are made. And so certainly that power dynamic sits back there, and we wanna make sure that we are being inclusive on both sides of the camera. So, a good find there. A good, good find there. So let's take a quick break and then we will do what we need to do to close out this episode.


0:35:45.4 Torin: Awesome. So our Her Voice segment, which is where we amplify women making moves, we have two this week, two, but they are two very strong ones. Number one, Candice Cook Simmons is now the Chief Strategy Officer for RadicalMedia. Shoutout to Candice Cook Simmons. Now, listen, for those of you out there listening, I might have said that as if I know Candice Cook Simmons, like we are exchanging text messages back and forth with one another, we are tweeting one another in the DMs. No, it's not like that. It's just I like the work that she's doing. I like the work that she's done. So Candice Cook Simmons, Chief Strategy Officer for RadicalMedia.

0:36:26.6 Torin: And this one I really, really like, and I don't know Sarah either, but I wish I did. Sarah Hardy who is the COO of Bobbie, B-O-B-B-I-E. It's an infant formula startup that she co-founded in 2019 with a fellow Airbnb alumna, Ms Laurie Modi, M-O-D-I. And I'm giving them a shout-out because the company actually offers. Now, I need you to hear this. The company, Bobbie, it's a startup, the company Bobbie is a startup, and they offer employees four months of paid leave and an option to take an additional eight months of unpaid leave. Why am I stressing this year? I'm stressing the year, because far too often, when we talk about benefits and companies doing DNI ride, and what these companies should be doing, we target our IER to the big companies, and we leave the smaller companies kind of off the radar.

0:37:30.9 Torin: When in actuality, it's better to start when you're small, so that we don't have this huge problem to deal with when we are at 20,000 employees, 50,000 employees, 100,000 employees. So I love that Bobbie, this infant formula startup company is saying, "If you are having paternal leave or family leave issues, you can do something lasting up to a year." Shoutout to Sarah Hardy, COO of Bobbie. Quick mention and resources, J?

0:38:05.8 Julie: Yep. So on Tuesday, April 19th at 2:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, I will be doing a webinar sponsored by our friends over at Broadbean, focusing on managing talent with cognitive and learning disabilities. You can register if you go to broadbean.com. You can also check out the link on their LinkedIn, our Facebook page, and my LinkedIn.

0:38:32.9 Torin: And that's again on April 19th. And that same week, April 19th, 20th and 21st, DEAMcon22 is going to be happening in San Diego. You can get the information at DEAMcon, D-E-A-M-C-O-N.org. Again, deamcon.org, or you can go over on Twitter and follow DirectEmployers and you can get the full agenda. Now, I'm telling you, we are going to make sure we hit San Diego heavy. I'm gonna be doing a keynote actually on Wednesday. I think it's like 4:30, Pacific Coast time. I'mma send them folks to dinner on a natural high. Listen, I close reminding each and every one of you to share the pod with your digital tribe and to find your voice. Be a better human. Let's create better culture, better teams, better workplaces. For now, J and I are ghost.

0:39:26.1 Julie: See ya.