Julie loves Lizzo. Now more than ever.
Julie loves Lizzo. Now more than ever. The Washington Post tells employees, "You never speak outside the family." Burger King in Austria celebrates PRIDE with two tops and two bottoms.....yeah, you read that right! Don't miss Her Voice and new this week #DisabilityTwitter.
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0:00:01.4 Announcer: We've been about this work, diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, share through the voices of a white woman and a black man. We bring lived experiences. We have pursued DNI progress for most of our professional lives. We use Crazy and the King to cover news, tips from colleagues and host incredible guests. Listeners count on Julie and I to transparently drive the conversation. We thank you for rocking with us. Check in. Julie, kick off the show.
0:00:36.3 Julie: Welcome to Crazy and The King.
0:00:41.3 Torin: Whoo, whoo. So let me just say, it looks like you, you're still smiling, even though you are stateside, and we got a whole lot happening stateside that could make things a little depressive. We'll talk about that a little bit in In a Flash. What do you think?
0:00:58.0 Julie: Oh yeah, it's been an intense week, that's for damn sure. And we got more intensity coming up. So, uh...
0:01:03.9 Torin: And guess what? And let me just say one thing that I heard on the radio this morning, and I promise I'm not gonna get political, but I am gonna heard... I am gonna share that, I heard there was a person who spoke at the January 6th insurrection in 2021 for two minutes and made $60,000.
0:01:32.2 Julie: I'm gonna go ahead and say, I don't think that's all she's getting paid for, but okay.
0:01:38.9 Torin: Probably get some shit for that, but I don't know.
0:01:40.0 Torin: How you feel, how you feel, how you feel?
0:01:42.4 Julie: Good. Got our tickets to RecFest, looking forward to doing all of that, and seeing you in person and getting some great interviews. So yeah, we're jamming through June, just eye on the prize. Get me back to Europe.
0:01:55.7 Torin: Yep. She said jamming through June. Can I put a little flex in?
0:02:00.2 Julie: Hell, yeah.
0:02:00.3 Torin: I think I shared this with you, but I've never flown first class, like true layout first class internationally. And I'm finally doing that when we go to RecFest in July. And when I tell you I'm looking forward to my flight, I'm looking forward to my flight even more so now than I was before, because the day that I return from RecFest, the next morning, I'm on a flight going to LA.
0:02:28.7 Julie: Whoo.
0:02:31.8 Torin: Yeah.
0:02:31.9 Julie: Yeah. You better sleep in that layout bed.
0:02:35.0 Torin: That's why I'm so, you know, at first it was kind of like a little flex move, like, all right, Torin, you've worked extremely hard, you earned it. So go ahead and just kind of, I don't wanna say splurge, but splurge and do that. But then when I got this event a couple of weeks ago, I was like, Lord have mercy. I'm so glad that I am flying first class or business class over to London. But we got a great show, great episode today for this week. We're gonna be talking about some good stuff, Google paying some more money for a gender pay discrimination suit. I mean, who's surprised. Right, right?
0:03:10.7 Julie: Yep. And a silly ass Juneteenth ice cream and a museum creating some watermelon salad.
0:03:18.8 Torin: Yeah. Yeah. And the Washington Post actually, well, they fired an employee. And we'll talk a bit about that, and I'm really, really curious to get your take on that because, well, first of all, let me ask, are you even aware of what happened?
0:03:36.7 Julie: Yes.
0:03:37.9 Torin: Okay. Got it. Okay. So you're aware.
0:03:39.9 Julie: Yes, yes, yes. I'm in the know.
0:03:42.7 Torin: So good. You're in the know. I cannot wait to get your take on that because naturally there was a bit of resistance when the, I think it's the publisher came out last week and made those online statements about being civil to your employees and all of that. So the Washington Post fired someone. We'll talk about that story a little bit later in the episode. And then finally, finally, you got Lizzo for the win.
0:04:11.1 Julie: Lizzo for the win. And I can't wait to talk about the story.
0:04:13.8 Torin: And I caught a piece of that, I caught a piece of that one and, and I haven't listened to the song. So, you know, we've talked about this. You are a big Little NAS X fan. We mentioned Doja Cat a couple of weeks back. You were like, definitely know who Doja Cat is. And I think that was like a Taco Bell and Doja Cat collaboration. And you apparently are a Lizzo fan.
0:04:41.1 Julie: Yes.
0:04:42.1 Torin: I gotta tell you, I'm not a Lizzo fan. I'm not, I'm not not a fan. I've just, I've never heard, a full song of Lizzo, maybe one, maybe one, maybe one. But I don't have her in my rotation, I'm not pulling her up. She's not necessarily played on the stations that I listen to. I have not listened to little NAS X. Again, who missed the country song that he did a couple of years ago? I mean, no matter what station you were on, you heard that song. But outside of that, again, not in my rotation, I'm not not a fan of these individuals; I'm just not familiar with their music. So I am curious to hear what was said and why you are giving her the thumbs up and the win this week. So, interesting show, some headlines that I can't wait for us to dig into.
0:05:33.3 Julie: Awesome. So let's grab In a Flash and a break and we'll be right back to chat.
0:05:42.3 Torin: So, In a Flash, opening up the newsfeed this week, and it seems like much of the content is gloomy. We're talking crypto, we're talking gas prices, food, housing market, and VC-backed companies, like VC-backed companies are faring the worst. Year to date, shares of VC-backed companies that recently went public are collectively down more than 50% since January. And speaking of crypto, here's Harish Raja Nala who was on vacation. His name is actually Harish, H-A-R-I-S-H. So Harish was actually on vacation when he received an email with the subject line, "Update to your Coinbase offer." Now I'm smiling. It's not necessarily a smiling story, but apparently he had turned Coinbase down more than five, or at least five times before he finally accepted an offer, to only have that offer rescinded due to turbulence in the crypto market.
0:06:48.0 Torin: Talk about headwinds. Atmos Labs, a Chicago based play-and-earn metaverse developer raised $11 million in seed funding. [0:06:58.7] ____ Dimension of Atmos Labs is more about the play and earn or P and E phrase over the name of the company. You see, companies raise money all the time, it's actually the tracking of the cheese that I'm trying to keep in front of you. You have to keep up. Play and learn, that is our definition of the week. And finally, some of the headlines you may have missed, "A Google engineer who thinks the company's AI has come to life has been placed on leave." You can find that story in the Washington Post. "India's economy is growing quickly. Why can't it produce enough jobs?" Over on the New York times. And, "America's politicians are older than ever," it's on Axios. I wonder if that last story has an ageist slant.
0:07:55.0 Torin: So tell me, which one of them stories you wanna jump on first?
0:08:02.5 Julie: I think one that we didn't mention does get a really quick mention. I think that we're talking about allyship a lot this week. So DC, the city council, has also just passed a law that will ban employers from firing workers for marijuana use outside of the workplace. I think this is a great first step as we move towards legalization. It is a huge diversity issue. From what I've read, it doesn't go quite far enough in terms of, we still need to make sure we're expunging criminal records for things that are now legal. I think that's like, that's the game changer thing for me in terms of marijuana legalization and I'd like to see DC take that next step.
0:08:51.7 Torin: You know, we rarely about this, J, but when you think about employers not firing individuals because of their marijuana usage outside of the workplace, at least here in DC, do you have an opinion on how states have stood up the whole marijuana industry and in many ways made it cost prohibitive from people from black and brown communities, largely not exclusively, but largely being able to afford to even play in that space? Set another way, legislation and fees and whatnot, it just really makes it out of reach. Here we are serving time for something that's now legal, they're not letting people out of jail, and they're preventing people in the streets from participating legally in that economy.
0:09:46.8 Julie: Yeah. And I would say this is a black and brown issue, but it is also a socioeconomic issue. When we have people like former speaker of the house, John Boehner, Justin Timberlake, big stars investing in marijuana industries, a lot of dollars flowing in from the already top percent of wealth in our country, you immediately create a market that becomes non-competitive for so many people who have in the past been a part of the marijuana trade and now cannot participate because the barrier to entry is so high in terms of dollar amount. So it's like kinda, to me, it's like a double kick in the teeth. Not only can you not participate in terms of entrepreneurship and building the business, but you also still have that rap sheet on your record for something that John Boehner is actively doing in the State of Ohio right now.
0:10:46.0 Torin: Yeah. Yeah. And doing [laughter], I believe from all accounts is doing pretty well.
0:10:51.8 Julie: Pretty damn well.
0:10:52.8 Torin: Pretty damn well. So let's talk about Lizzo. So what was the song? Yeah. You all can't see her, but J is on camera doing the shimmy shimmy with her shoulders, like with a smile that compliments the shimmy shimmy. She apparently likes the song. And of course, we already mentioned that she's given Lizzo a thumbs up for what she did after receiving a bit of online criticism.
0:11:18.3 Julie: Yeah. So first I got to see Lizzo at Pride in Indianapolis in 2019. And it was just such a fun show. If I remember correctly, she even had that she, but all of Indie Pride had an interpreter on stage, an ASL interpreter on stage the whole time, just a great show, great concert. So Lizzo has a new song out and it's called Grrrls. I'm gonna say that in the super widest girl way, because that's just what I did. G-R-R-R-L-S, pretty close. And on Sunday I saw a tweet from a disability advocate named Hannah Diviney, who also has cerebral palsy, said in a post on Twitter, directed at Lizzo, says, "Your song makes me pretty angry and sad. Spaz doesn't mean freaked out or crazy. It's an ableist slur. It's 2022. Do better."
0:12:19.1 Torin: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. And when I saw this, I immediately thought about, an employee of mine, J, from the '90, and his nickname, we called him Spaz. So when I'm reading this, I'm actually smiling. I'm listening to you, I'm with you, but I'm smiling because it made me think about my man. Whenever we would have our recognition events, he would, white guy, he would get down on the ground and do the worm. You remember that dance, the worm on the ground? So like at all of the events, no matter what was going on, we wait. At some point before the event was over, this dude could have on a full blown tuxedo and he was getting on that floor and doing the worm. And so I never knew that spaz was derogatory to the disability community. So can you please, before you talk more about Lizzo, can you just explain maybe the origin, why, who it applies to? I've never heard that before, never.
0:13:29.1 Julie: I honestly like full transparency moment, in... When I read the original post, it was a thread from Hannah, I was like, oh shit. Okay. So I pop over to Google and I Google the lyrics for Grrrls and I read it and I'm like, don't see it, don't see it, don't see it.
0:13:52.2 Torin: Wow. You missed it.
0:13:52.3 Julie: I completely missed it. And I can't tell you the last time I used the word spaz, just because it's, it feels like a dated word to me, but I never associated it with ableism or as an ableist term. So like in full transparency, always growing, just didn't connect the dots. But related to, kind of muscle rigidity in certain diseases and disabilities that can cause spasms or spastic actions, like you'll see sometimes in people who have cerebral palsy. And so the term is related to someone who has muscle rigidity symptom as a part of their overarching disability.
0:14:41.0 Torin: Oh my gosh. And I just hear it right now. You know, we would say you're spazzing out, or you see what I'm saying? Like, and I don't even know how my man, Roger, I won't say his last name, but I don't even know how he ended up with the name. If, whether it was somebody at work that gave it to him, or he told us that was his nickname from childhood. But what I do know is we would say that, yo, why are you spazzing out? Stop spazzing out, quit spazzing. I never knew that it was associated with that muscle reflex that was happening in people with a... Total learning moment.
0:15:17.4 Julie: Exactly. Also a learning moment for Lizzo. And so yesterday on Twitter, she posted this and I'm gonna read it verbatim. "It's been brought to my attention that there is a harmful word in my new song, Grrrls, let me make one thing clear. I never want to promote derogatory language. As a fat black woman in America, I've had many hurtful words used against me. So I understand," actually she says, "I overstand the power words can have, whether intentionally or in my case, unintentionally. I'm proud to say there's a new version of Grrrls with a lyric change. This is the result of me listening and taking action. As an influential artist, I'm dedicated to being a part of the change I've been waiting to see in the world, XOXO, Lizzo.
0:16:18.0 Torin: What do I say? You absolutely give her the win. What do I say? Like nowhere in there was, the language of, if, if I offended you, there was no if, it was bottom line, I'm being fully accountable and that's what it is. Period.
0:16:34.9 Julie: And I think this is what exemplifies being a growing, maturing ally. Like I fucked up, I'm sorry, I changed. And then I set the example for what change looks like. I got chills reading that, like literal goosebumps.
0:16:56.1 Torin: Yeah. I absolutely appreciate her for this one right here. Did the, what's the young lady's name, the... Put the tweet up, Hannah Diviney? Did she have a comment? Did Lizzo maybe include her in the tweet? Do you know?
0:17:14.2 Julie: So I don't know if she's responded yet. And I will check and we will report back.
0:17:23.0 Torin: Got it, got it, got it. Okay. So let's jump to the whole DC story. I'm sorry, not DC, but the Washington Post piece. So let me kind of set this up. There was a reporter, inside of the Washington Post, I think his name is David, is it Weisel?
0:17:45.4 Julie: Weigel.
0:17:46.8 Torin: Weigel. Let me just try to find his... Dave Weigel, that's it. So Dave Weigel retweeted a tweet last week, and this is something interesting because when I was on site with the client down in Tennessee, I actually talked about this in one of our open group sessions around inclusion and allyship and, you know, just showing up and being a good human in the workplace. And at the time that I had the discussion, it was beginning to unfold, if you will. So Dave Weigel, he retweeted a joke, which has since been deleted, but I'm going to paraphrase from memory. Basically what he said was, or what the joke said was all women are bi. The question to determine whether or not polar or asexual, something like that. So basically that was his thing. And so one of his colleagues, she's a national political reporter, Felicia Sonmez, S-O-N-M-E-Z, she was offended. She was disappointed, she was offended, she might have even been angry, but she went to Twitter and she voiced her concern about the fact that this prominent colleague, well respected or influential colleague, is retweeting this type of joke in the atmosphere. And so she said, basically, you know, "Oh, I guess this is what it's like to be able to work with folks that have carte blanche to say whatever they'd like on the internet." Is that kind of how you read it and processed it, J?
0:19:36.0 Julie: Yeah, yeah. So Dave Weigel, and just for those who don't know him, has a history of inappropriate, whether it's ableist, misogynist, homophobic interactions on public spaces. He knows a lot of stuff, I follow him, but he fucks up a lot.
0:19:58.5 Torin: Okay.
0:20:00.1 Julie: And so Felicia, I think, had had it at this point, and took a screenshot of the retweet and posted it on her Twitter and made her feelings known publicly, which is really what led up to her termination of, "Hey, we don't publicly shame or confront our co-workers here at The Washington Post." And I think it's funny, because Dave had to issue an apology and he got suspended without pay for 30 days.
0:20:35.6 Torin: That's right.
0:20:36.9 Julie: And so what I... And I'm not necessarily saying... I always have a rule, whether it's at work or in relationships, is you never show a chink in the armor, right? What happens in the family gets dealt with in the family. And so I wouldn't necessarily agree that what Felicia did was right, or not right, how I would have handled it, but for her to be fired versus Dave who actually was the offender and has a history of that offense, to get a 30-day suspension but not lose his job, to me, this goes back to... Women can't say, "This is bullshit," because we suffer greater consequences than a white man does.
0:21:23.7 Torin: Yeah, so for those listening, again, he did the retweet, Felicia had a comment on Twitter, there was a bit of stir up, a little bit of a dust-up on social media, folks both inside of the Washington Post, outside of the Washington Post are beginning to comment because it's in the public space. At the point of last week, he was not originally suspended. Prior to the suspension, Sally Busby, who is the executive editor of The Washington Post, she basically sent out that soft memo, "Let's be kind to one another." That kept the dust-up and the fire going, a lot of people on social media were like, "Wait a minute. You should have a heavier hand in his action than just sending out a memo to staff saying, 'Let's be kind to one another.'"
0:22:20.0 Torin: I think she felt that they made the decision to suspend him, like you said, J, for 30 days, and then Felicia continued to go back and forth, and I guess that ire between the two of them in that public space, she used some harsher language, and it wasn't really harsh to me, quite frankly. I read the tweets, I don't believe... I don't believe that she was out of bounds in any of what she said, but you actually made a comment, you say you may not have done it that way, so I don't believe what she said was out of bounds, I just... She just kept it public. What would you maybe have done?
0:23:10.7 Julie: Well... And like I said, I always try to handle things internal, whether that's with the family, with work, but it's like we are each other's kind of armor, is how I put it, and we don't wanna show anyone else that there's weaknesses in our armor. And so I would have handled it internally. But what I didn't give thought to before I even made that statement is we don't know the history of if she has been fighting this battle internally, if she has been having this conversation and she's not being heard. Because at some point, let's be honest, if we're not being heard, we're not being taken care of, we don't see the change that we want, then things erupt outside and there is a chink in our armor.
0:24:00.3 Julie: And that's really, I think, potentially what we saw here. And then to be fired because you haven't been heard or you don't feel like you've been heard, things haven't changed, and then it gets ugly. And that's the thing is, if it had been handled internally in the first place, which I'm gonna just go ahead and make a broad assumption, you know what they say about those, that it hasn't, because she feels like she needs to come out publicly, then we wouldn't have this. And that's why we have to listen to our people, and we have to hear them and we have to take action that's more than just like, "Be nice to each other, guys."
0:24:41.0 Torin: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And it really, really, really is an example of how fast something... Something that we could have quelled internally, how fast it can spread once it moves outside of the corporate quarter and hits one of these social platforms, which leads me to the position and the point, I could see how... I could see why a lot of leaders, for instance, have chosen to just not be engaged on social media at all, because they feel like I could say something well-meaning and it can get twisted, shared, re-shared, cut, and now I am finding myself trying to defend my brand.
0:25:32.0 Torin: I can also see how a lot of organizations struggle with, for instance, allowing their ERNs, their ERGs, their BRGs, their ARGs, all of the employee resource groups and those collectives of people, I could see why some organizations might struggle with giving them the reins of having an [0:25:58.1] ____ unfeathered platform for being able to speak on the company's behalf, if you will. Again, I'm not suggesting that we silence people and you don't give them access. I just can see through an example like this, where our lack of decision, decisiveness internally, administratively, being decisive, it can cause some problems.
0:26:26.7 Julie: Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. There are so many landmines out there that can easily get us all in trouble, and I think Burger King is a bit of an example of that, this week [laughter]..
0:26:38.2 Torin: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait... Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Did you just take me all the way from the Washington Post to Austria real quick? Like you did that in such a beautiful and effortlessly way, but that just goes to the whole, that harkens back to what happened with Walmart a couple of weeks ago with the crazy ice cream. Tell folks what Burger King did.
0:27:00.1 Julie: Okay, so Burger King has a Pride ad in Austria that is being slammed as a strange political ad. I'm gonna tell you, I thought it was pretty fucking funny.
0:27:15.3 Julie: So this month, if you are... Happen to be in Vienna or Austria, you can go to Burger King and you can get a Pride Whopper. [chuckle] And that Whopper has two equal buns, meaning you get either two tops or two bottoms. [laughter]
0:27:35.0 Torin: Or two bottoms or two bottoms. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Two tops with all of Sesame seeds or two bottoms that have the nice little dusty coating on the bottom of it. You understand what I'm saying?
0:27:46.4 Julie: Yes, yes.
0:27:47.5 Torin: Yes. Yes indeed.
0:27:47.8 Julie: And this, I mean, this tweet from Jarett Wieselman who works at Netflix was, it just made me laugh out loud. [chuckle] "Burger King Austria made a Pride Burger that either... That's either two tops or two bottoms, what in the straight hell?"
0:28:06.9 Torin: Yeah. And it's good to see some folks over at Netflix still smiling and having fun because they've certainly taken a lot of hits with some of their programming over the year of 2021, 2022. They recently went through some layoffs over at Netflix. So Jarett Wieselman, we appreciate you for bringing a smile to Crazy and the King this week. But yeah, this just suggests, you know, try not to be performative, you know? So when we are looking at not just Pride Month, not just Juneteenth, but when we are considering audiences, communities, demographics, that we do want to highlight, that we want to amplify, we wanna put a signal boost under, let's try to get more collective about how we are going to create, curate, show up in the marketplace to do that amplification, that signal boosting and all of that good stuff. So, Austria Burger King, I don't know who was in the room, but I will tell you, J and I, we did kind of get a kick out of the commercial. If you haven't seen it, it is on YouTube, good people. So just go to YouTube, do a quick search and you can find it. And real quick, before we get out of here, 118 mill is what Google has agreed to pay to settle gender pay discrimination lawsuit. The tech giant has settled a class action lawsuit that accused it of systemically underpaying women. Google admitted no wrongdoing. Who's surprised? As it resolved the women's, and actually, it's just four women, Julie, four women's claims of widespread pay biases.
0:29:53.1 Julie: Absolutely. Do better, Google. So let's head on out to our last ad break and then into Her Voice.
0:30:03.6 Torin: Her Voice is a segment where we amplify women making moves. J, I want you to go first this week.
0:30:10.9 Julie: Okay. So Yahoo added a new board member. Well, a couple of new members. Joining the board of the internet company are Jessica Alba, the actress and Honest Company founder, Cynthia Marshall, CEO of the Dallas Mavericks, and Katie Stanton, the founder and general partner of Moxxie Ventures.
0:30:31.3 Torin: Dana Walden, Walt Disney Television's chairman, will become Disney's number one content executive. She will be overseeing all original news and entertainment programming for Disney's streaming platforms, as well as its cable and broadcast networks. Shout out to you, miss Dana Walden.
0:30:50.3 Julie: And Mantra Health has hired Yiwen Looi as Vice President of Marketing, Kelly Carlton as Vice President of Program Success and Allie Schwartz as VP of People.
0:31:03.6 Torin: And finally, Payton Iheme, I believe I'm pronouncing that correctly. It's I-H-E-M-E. Payton Iheme, the head of public policy for Bumble in the Americas is working to advance legislation that penalizes the act of cyber flashing. The term refers to the act of sending unwanted sexual images to another person through digital means. That could happen actually on a dating app, a social media platform, or even via a text message or other file-sharing service such as AirDrop. And I remember just a couple of weeks ago a story of something that happened in a classroom, an educational classroom, where some questionable content was sent to all of the students via AirDrop. I wanna say it was images of the Uvalde shooting, something like that. So I appreciate Payton for her work to try to minimize these digital harassments and unwanted infractions, let me say that. So shout out to you Payton and to all of the other women in this week's Her Voice segment.
0:32:17.2 Julie: Yeah. And really quick mention this week. Best tweet I've seen all week is that Pride Month should be less focused on rainbow flags and more focused on the attacks that are happening at the state law houses and legislatures who have produced hundreds of bills targeted at anti-LGBTQ individuals, especially trans children and their families that, some go as far as in Texas to accuse and arrest parents for child abuse, who support transition. We just wanna share a resource to help you stay abreast of what's happening. You can check them out on Twitter @equalityfed, equality, F-E-D or their website equalityfederation.org.
0:33:10.6 Torin: And we're gonna add something new to our show each week going forward. We're now going to focus on the hashtag disability Twitter. So this came about because a couple of months ago, I promised that I was going to spend 90 days trying to find influencers in the disability community. I've done a so-so job of that. And so one of the things that I feel will help me stay on task is if I just simply make it a part of the show. And so I think it will help educate myself, Julie, as well as all of our listeners, just like we learned about spaz earlier in the episode.
0:33:47.6 Torin: I want to just read to you two tweets this week. Just wanna read two tweets from this week that came under the disability Twitter hashtag. Number one, "I've had 39 surgeries and with each one I'm more fatigued for longer periods of time post-op. I recently learned anesthesia can stay in your body system up to two years. I've never gone more than a year without surgery. Hashtag disability Twitter, hashtag Spoony. I need some help." That came from May Megamind in real life or Megamind IRL. And on a good note, this tweet from Katie M. Joe, "Sometimes my disability does overcome me and that's okay." So I want to close reminding each and every one of you to share the pod with your digital tribe and to find your voice. Be a better human, let's create better culture, teams and workplaces. For now, J and I, I promise every week going forward, hashtag disability Twitter. For now, J and I are ghosts.
0:35:04.2 Julie: See ya.