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Jan. 27, 2022

Edelman Trust 2022, Larry Miller and Disingenuous Legislators

Edelman Trust 2022, Larry Miller and Disingenuous Legislators

Torin and Julie jump into the Edelman Trust Barometer 2022, Nike's Larry Fink comes clean and Disingenuous legislators

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Torin and Julie jump into the Edelman Trust Barometer 2022, Nike's Larry Fink comes clean and Disingenuous legislators do more damage than they are likely to be able to control.

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Production and Music: DJ Cellz


0:00:01.0 Torin: We've been about this work... Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, Belonging. Share through the voices of a White woman and a Black man. We bring lived experiences. We have pursued D&I progress for most of our professional lives. We use Crazy and the King to cover news, tips from colleagues and hosts incredible guests. Listeners count on Julie and I to transparently drive the conversation. We thank you for rocking with us. Check it. Julie, kick off the show.

0:00:41.7 Julie: Welcome, welcome, welcome to Crazy and the King.

0:00:47.5 Torin: Hold on... It's kind of slick there.

0:00:54.8 Julie: [chuckle] Been practicing my radio voice.

0:00:56.5 Torin: Yeah, understand. I see. I like that. I like, we got something new. Can we tell them? Can we tell them the new HexiColors at all? We gotta wait?

0:01:04.9 Julie: Let's wait till next week. Till next week, I think next week we have three big announcements. That's what I'm saying.

0:01:11.7 Torin: Three?

0:01:11.9 Julie: Three.

0:01:13.7 Torin: So, wait a minute. I thought this was like Crazy and the King... I only know one...


0:01:20.3 Julie: So, one is the HexiColors. Two is...

0:01:23.4 Torin: But you can't, but you can't tell them about the other two, because we're recording, so it's like...

0:01:25.7 Julie: Yeah. And the third one is a surprise, yeah.

0:01:27.6 Torin: Is a surprise. Okay. Alright... You see everybody out there listening, you see how this is. Literally, J is in charge, like I absolutely, and from the very beginning, you remember what I said that, I was like, Look, I just want you to be in charge. All I wanna do is come and record. I don't want no responsibility outside of pushing the record button. You know, plugging in the microphone, pushing the on button and being ready to rock and roll every single week, and you've been holding this down for a couple of years, so I'm gonna be surprised with everybody else. You don't even have to tell me. I'm good with that.

0:02:03.7 Julie: Okay, deal.

0:02:05.5 Torin: Yeah. I'm good with that, I'm good with that. Vaccine mandates. So, we had a little tiff over the weekend.

0:02:13.2 Julie: [chuckle] No, I'm not a part of this wee, that was you all.

0:02:17.0 Torin: There's this dude out there in the universe by the name of Chad Sowash and Matt Stubbs... Actually, they are these two dudes, and they tried to gang up on me a little bit, and I was smiling over here in Charm City. I was like, Oh, they're trying to flex on me...


0:02:33.0 Torin: I said... I said, Oh, this joker don't sent me a whole URL with all of the vaccines and whatnot, and then he... And Julie, let me tell you, it was funny because I was on my laptop and I was like, "Alright, well, let me just click this link, he flexing on me. That's cool. Drill Sergeant style. He flexing, I got it." Stubbs is over in London, laughing. I already know what's going on. I got this, I said, "Let me look at this list." And then I look at the list and I'm like, "Damn."


0:03:10.5 Torin: I was like... I said... And I was probably sitting there when my kings and when my princesses got all of these shots... 'Cause I'm a present dad. I go to the appointments, I'm all of those things. And so I was like, Oh, that was a smooth flex too. I was like, "Let me go ahead and tell them, you got me on this one."

0:03:31.5 Julie: Yeah, I've been taking my social media in bites, so I caught up on that conversation about a day and a half after it happened. I was like, "Oh Lord, I know we're talking about this on the show this week. I know it."


0:03:45.8 Torin: Yeah. It was good though. It was really good.

0:03:50.2 Julie: So, what have we got in store for our, what you like to call our light show work?

0:03:58.5 Torin: Yeah, well, I wanna just say a shout out to Mr. Joe Madison, the Black Eagle on SiriusXM. He ended his hunger strike, I believe it was around 76 days, that Thursday morning after the Senate failed to move on Voting Rights Act. But one of the reasons why I bring Joe Madison up, one the adoration and appreciation for the sacrifice that he made in his 70s to go on that 70-something-plus day hunger strike, but to also amplify the power of his platform. The power of our platform, the one that we... Because while we give opinion, we are working honestly. We're not trying to be hyperbolic. We're not attempting to sensationalized these things that are happening around D&I. And so, I wanna amplify something that happened just this week on his show. Gentleman called in on Friday of last week, which would have been, I think the 21st or something like that. Called in on Friday of last week to share that his daughter was in an emergency room waiting for a bed, couldn't get a bed, because folks that are unvaccinated or whatnot are in the hospital because of COVID. Called back on Monday of this week, Julie, Monday of this week, and here's how he started.

0:05:33.3 Torin: And I'm paraphrasing this. He said, Joe, I called you 10 years ago. And Julie, I want you to know what I'm about to tell you, I was listening that morning 10 years ago. He said, Joe, I called you 10 years ago... And my wife died 10 years ago. The morning that I called you, I was sitting in my car in a parking lot, moments away from committing suicide. You pulled me into a better place. When I called you on Friday, I shared with you that my daughter was trying to get a bed, tried to get a bed in the whole region or seven hospitals or something like that. Daughter died on Saturday morning at 1:34 AM.

0:06:27.9 Torin: When I heard that this week, when I think about 10 years ago when I was dropping the Kings off at school, my princess at the time at school, and I'm listening to a man in tears on the radio because he's about to commit suicide because he feels like there's no... I feel like we have an absolute responsibility to protect our platform and to make sure that we are providing people with food that they can operate off of, and with, that we are challenging them to be better humans, and so that is a lesson for me. Not a broadcaster, I'm not a journalist, I'm a consultant, I'm a speaker, I'm a coach, but I wanna be the best of those things that I could possibly be, so I salute Joe Madison, and I salute each and every one of you who are out there listening building your own platform, your own shows, doing your work the way that you do your work, I salute you as well.

0:07:37.5 Julie: Yeah, and just because it always sits close to my heart, as you know, Torin I lost my brother to suicide a little over three years ago. Regina King lost her son this week to suicide, Sinead O'Connor lost her... I believe her son, also to suicide in the last couple of weeks, life is never better without you, and so if you are uncertain about going on, you can call me, you can call Torin, there are people that around you that even though you don't know, love you and want you to be there, and would never be the same without you, so from that note, amazing work that Joe Madison did, and know that somebody is out there, even if it's just me that wants you to keep going.

0:08:28.1 Torin: We want you to keep going. So there's a story, it was circulating on the internet, as they say, there's a bill down in Florida... I just wish the people could see me right now, there's a bill to ban lessons making students feel discomfort. This bill is advancing in the state of Florida through their governor, making White students feel discomfort. And all I could say to myself, Julie, is I grew up in Iowa, I grew up in the Midwest, Indiana, Ohio, and Iowa, but my formulative and teen years, Iowa. So I'm very much so present and conscious by this time, not Black power conscious, but I'm aware. I know what I'm reading. No one ever cared how Black students felt in these classes talking about slavery and being demeaning, and we were monkeys, and we were less than human, and three-fifths of a... Nobody ever cared about how we felt, and in some ways, Julie, they still don't give a fuck how we care.

0:09:49.7 Julie: No, I mean I agree, I think we... You try to stay apolitical a lot of times, but this week we've seen again that the Republicans are saying the quiet parts out loud, so in Indiana, we have a similar bill that's in process, the wording there in committee was that... We have to teach that Nazism is an apolitical, not a bad or a good thing. In the legislature here in Florida, we have an individual by virtue of his or her race or sex does not bear responsibility, and then we have Mitch McConnell who stated, I believe it was on Friday, that Black Americans vote just as regularly as Americans.

0:10:40.0 Torin: Americans.

0:10:42.7 Julie: And... Americans. And that's what we're seeing over, and over, from this party, and making stands like Joe Madison made, making the work that we do all that much more important to make sure that people are aware about how this is gonna impact Black America, but more than just Black America, all of us.

0:11:05.0 Torin: Absolutely, you know, I have no cut card when it comes to politics, like I'm not a person who's stopping for politicians, that's just not my thing. I have a certain level of respect for all of them, I have a certain level of disappointment for all of them, I just want them to show up and be civil and be honest about the work that they are doing. Let's make some sense. Like I know some incredibly talented, smooth... I would go out and have a drink with Republicans, like I absolutely do. Some are friends, it's just that the lunacy of some of these things that are being pronounced in such bold, and visible ways... I wanna use the word daunting. That's not the right word. I don't... It's just tiresome.

0:12:08.9 Julie: It is.

0:12:10.7 Torin: It's just tiresome to... And you find yourself sometimes Julie saying, well do I respond on social, do I just not get into it. You know what I'm saying? Do I just not even comment? Because I yeah... It's just tiresome. That's all I can say.

0:12:26.3 Julie: Yeah, and the reality is, is that they will use these type of anti-critical race theory bills to create more acceptance of false narratives and allow hate to spread even further. So we had two examples of anti-Semitism this week that just came up in my feed. So an eight-year-old Jewish child was both threatened and spit on outside of his synagogue. And a Tennessee adoption agency is using a 2018 anti-LGBTQ law to refuse to place a child with the Jewish couple. It doesn't stop with Critical Race Theory. And I feel all of the same things that you do about being exhausted. When do you engage? When do you not engage? And I, quite frankly, have no good answer for that. But it reminds me that we have to use our voice. We have to find our voice. And there's things that we have to make others aware of, even if it makes us tired in the process. Because it's a tired that will have an impact.

0:13:36.8 Torin: Absolutely. And speaking of finding your voice, why don't you all have a listen to this right here.


0:13:46.0 Larry Miller: Well, it's kind of been mixed. Because on one hand, it's been a struggle for me to really open up and share these things that I tried so hard to hide over all of the years. But on the other hand, it's kind of been freeing to be able to not have to carry this around and not have to be concerned that something is gonna come out and maybe that would be detrimental to my career. So it's kind of in a mixed emotion deal. Part of it, I'm getting comfortable with my story being out there. And the other side is this bill is actually been kind of relieving.


0:14:26.5 Torin: So, that is Larry Miller. And to kinda take it to another level, a higher and more positive level in the show, that is Larry Miller. And Larry Miller is the current president of the Jordan brand within Nike. And Larry Miller has a book out. The book is titled Jump: My Secret Journey From the Streets to the Boardroom. Now, here's what's really interesting. He's commenting on his life as a gang member in his teens. And I feel like we said something just last week, or maybe it was the week before. This year, I feel like we've reminded people that second chances are a beautiful thing, when we did that story, yeah, earlier in the year.

0:15:23.5 Julie: Yep.

0:15:23.7 Torin: Second chances. Giving people another opportunity. Larry Miller committed murder when he was 16, served just under a decade in prison, and is now the president of the Jordan brand with Nike. That's not only the... That's not the only executive role he's had. He had an executive role, I wanna say, with the Portland Trail Blazers, one of the basketball teams as well. Definitely, he has a good life.

0:16:00.1 Julie: Yeah. This is just an amazing story. And just from a timeframe perspective, so he murdered a young man 50 years ago. And so if I'm thinking... Like my first thought in this was, "How did he get these jobs when we have background screens?" Right? And I don't know the answer to that other than it was... He was sealed as an underage or he got hired into Nike before that happened. But what an incredible story of not throwing someone away. And I don't wanna take away from the memory of the young man, the young father, the young son who was taken away from his family. And Mr. Miller needs to have atonement for that in many, many ways. I don't wanna belittle that. But when we think about everything that we do as a country to keep people who have a criminal history from being successful, from having not even this kind of success, but just even the basics of getting to work and being able to provide for your family. It's important to understand what we're missing and what we're losing. And Mr. Miller is a great example of someone who does have the ability to change their life, who does have the ability to have a positive impact on a business after he served his time.

0:17:34.5 Torin: Yeah, and he took advantage of all of the opportunities that were in front of him. He says in another interview, he was very hesitant, hesitant to talk about this secret. And I don't know... I gather from listening to him, Julie, that Nike didn't even know that this was in his past.

0:17:54.9 Julie: Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me too, which shocked me, when he was talking about like, "Hey, I asked Michael Jordan, "Should I talk about this"?" How incredible to be able to keep that kind of a secret and not have it influence his life in that... Not influence his career. Sorry.

0:18:13.2 Torin: Yeah, but to your point around atonement, and again, a small fraction of atonement, but part of that was facing that truth, vocalizing that truth, hoping that it would have some sort of an impact on other young people that may be listening, that may follow Nike, that may follow the Jordan brand, hopefully they may pick up the book, parents may purchase the book and share it with their young people. Part of him vocalizing this was, of course, not wanting that to still be in his closet. But here's what's interesting for me.

0:18:49.0 Torin: We talk about finding our voice, and for so many of us, Julie, we struggle to just simply speak up when a lady is aggrieved on a Zoom meeting, we struggle to say to a guy, "You know what, that joke is a bit inappropriate," we struggle to say to a woman who may have authority over a man, "You are flipping the power dynamic and you are wielding your presence, your power in a way that is not healthy for our environment. That is an abuse of power." We struggle to say that to a woman, we struggle to even support people when they are in an environment and they may be ridiculed because of their age or because of their disability, or because of their appearance, we struggle to open our mouths for situations and scenarios that are far less than this right here, and so I'm hoping that for those that are listening, maybe it will motivate you to say, "No for real, I do have to speak up." Like these little things that I'm battling, while they may be little, they are still impacting people's feeling included, feeling like they belong, it's still impacting people's pursuit of equity in terms of compensation, I need to speak up. And I'm hoping that this story gives you a bit more strength that you too can speak and share your voice in your organization.

0:20:28.6 Julie: Yeah. And I would just even echo, and when you have the opportunity to take a chance on someone, take that chance, people are capable of so much more good then we allow for in our lives, and I think this is just a fantastic story.

0:20:47.4 Torin: Yeah, and real quick, we wanna talk about home owner clauses, there's a new law in Illinois that allows homeowners to remove racist clauses from deeds. This is extremely important. You can go out and look at a documentary, I think it's titled Mapping Minnesota. I know here in Baltimore, we have tons of communities where there are still segregation language inside of the community deeds, I'm thinking of two of them right now. I know that Levittown in the book, The Color Of Law by Richard Rothstein. There are so many places around the country where this... This language up in Seattle, Washington, Oregon area, a ton of them, ton, ton, ton of them up in that area, there are so many, and you can't just take these out, and so I'm glad that Illinois has passed a law that says we are allowing people to remove racial restrictive covenants, it is language that has traditionally been used to prevent people from certain racial, ethnic and religious backgrounds from buying or renting in particular communities, so I'm glad about that. Glad about that.

0:22:01.7 Julie: So kudos to Illinois. And as we talk about all of these things, let's pop into our break and get back with the Edelman Trust Barometer.

0:22:11.1 Torin: Awesome, we did say we were gonna talk about that. Good stuff.

0:22:17.3 Julie: Alright, so for the third, maybe the fourth, I think maybe the fourth year in a row, we are gonna spend some time on the Edelman Trust Barometer, and this is something that you introduced me to when we started our fun little journey on Crazy and the King, and it's just fascinating. So why don't you set us up, give us the score for this year.

0:22:43.1 Torin: Yeah, so not a single democracy in the developed world believes that they will be better off in five years than they are right now, not one single democracy in the developed world, and what this suggests is that there is a huge distrust, Julie, of our government and what's really amazing, and Richard Edelman talks about this in a number of interviews, but he talks about how in March... Well, in the beginning of 2021, no, 2020, just before the pandemic, there was a lot of trust around government, like government was riding high in 2021, government was still doing okay as it related to the pandemic, because again, we were just kind of navigating that very first year, but literally in the last 12 months, the trust in the government has just fallen off of a cliff, and so most people do not feel like in five years things are going to be better for them and fact, the trust in the government fell in 17 out of 27 countries, I need to verify that, but the trust in government fell in a number of countries. Let me put it another way. When we look at a person's reputation, when we talk about their reputation, when we refer to their reputation, we're looking backward, it's a backward-looking concept, because it's based on history, what you used to do, what you did, I'm referring to you based on a relationship, a historical reference point, when we look at trust, trust is more forward-looking.

0:24:35.0 Torin: I'm willing to give you something, even though sight-unseen, I'm willing to trust that whatever it is that we're going to do, is going to be promising, and that's really what the Edelman Trust Barometer looks at, it looks at going forward.

0:24:55.6 Julie: Yeah, and so just to kind of lay a baseline for the Trust Barometer, it comes out every year. This year, 36,000 respondents from 28 countries participated, and as you mentioned, basically one out of two respondents viewed both government and media as divisive forces in our society, which is actually from an American perspective, backed up by a new poll this week, I believe, out from Pew Research Center that 76% of Americans believed that America is in decline and moving the wrong direction. And when we start to think about business, that business is not doing enough to address societal problems, climate change, economic inequality, trustworthy information was a huge component of this year's Trust Barometer and as always, workforce rescaling.

0:25:55.3 Torin: You know, and... But I'm curious, why do you think that is? Why do you think people want business to do more?

0:26:07.8 Julie: As I think kind of about the pillars of our society, we've got government institutions, businesses, NGO type organizations, and media, and media in the United States is really referred to as the Fourth Estate because it's supposed to keep the balance in the other pillars of our society and keep them trustworthy, and so as we see trust in two of those four pillars falling dramatically, society is gonna start to look at the remainder and start to have that expectation that if my government is failing me, if my media outlet is failing me, I have to find someone to rely upon, and quite frankly, we're seeing it go to business, and go to NGOs to start to pick up that and hopefully break that cycle of mistrust.


0:27:04.8 Torin: Yeah. And there's some music in the background, and I know what the producer's doing, our producer's bringing in a little bit of a clip on Richard Ottoman, he's talking a bit about how government's losing their trust in businesses... I'm sorry, people want more involvement from businesses and leaders, so let me just let the producer do what it is that he does.


0:27:36.0 S4: Well, we actually thought that this year might show that we'd reached a limit to what business is expected to do, just the opposite, by five to one, people want more business involvement, whether it's in sustainability, race and diversity, upscaling or wage levels, and all of those are within the remit of business to do, and what's exciting is also that there's a sense that in fact, CEOs are supposed to be public faces on these issues, and that they need to speak up on behalf of their consumers, on behalf of the employees, and also that shareholders really care about companies standing up on issues.


0:28:22.9 Julie: So I think what's so interesting and captivating about what we just heard and about what some of that I saw in the Trust Barometer this year is that, sort of that expectation that businesses will do more and that they'll speak even more in the wake of what was seen as a lot of political air quotes activism by CEOs, post-George Floyd, that kind of surprised me. Did it surprise you?

0:28:58.8 Torin: It did, but the reason why it surprised me post-George Floyd is because I said, why is it that it took a murder, it literally took a murder for you to be human? So, yeah, it surprised me.

0:29:14.2 Julie: Yeah, and Edelman says that people want CEOs to act on policy, and to be heard and to be out front, but they do wanna keep it not politics, and I think that's the nuance that really the communications departments and CEOs, and we heard it from Larry, think a couple of weeks ago, is that, last week, how do we have conversations about what is the right thing to do for our society as it relates to what the right thing to do for our businesses, and do it in a way that we build trust in an apolitical environment?

0:29:55.7 Torin: Yeah. And you know, one of the top 10 findings, it was absolutely that. Number nine was societal leadership is now a core function of business, and it talks about when people consider a job, 60% of employees want a CEO to speak out on controversial issues. And I talk about this often when I'm inside of company mandates, Julie, I always ask them, "Do you have a communications rubric? Like do you have a road map to help you distill what issues are of importance in relative to the work, the brand, what issues are relative to perhaps the communities and geographies in where you are delivering your products and your services?" So I always ask, "Do you have a communications rubric?" And when I think about number nine and people wanting their CEOs to take a position, it goes on to say 80% of the general population want CEOs to be personally visible when discussing public policy and external stakeholders, or work that their company has done to benefit society. They wanna see you, like I don't only wanna see you on CNBC talking about market movement, I don't wanna only read about you when you've made an acquisition or developed an incredible product or service, something to add to the catalogue.

0:31:33.9 Torin: I like those, but I also wanna see you being able to stand up, and not only for a George Floyd, I want you to stand up for the fact that we have children in cages at the border. I want you to stand up because politicians couldn't pass a Voting Rights Act in 2022. I want you to stand up because abortion rights are under attack in Texas and so many other places. I want you to stand up because affirmative action cases are going to be heard around education next year by the Supreme Court and in other ways.

0:32:13.1 Torin: So, I wanna see you as a leader saying, "Listen, it may not be what we do, but as a human or as a person... " I guess that's the same thing... Yeah. I wanna see you stand up. That's what people... 80% of people say, "We wanna see you." So, I highly encourage... You don't have to be a leader to be able to digest the Edelman Trust Barometer, which is the reason why Julie and I dissect it. We talk about it, well, we don't dissect it, but we at least talk about it, reference it often, and we absolutely try to spend time when the report comes out, because I love it. I think it's got a lot of information in there, and it just centers me to keep me reminded about what's important, how you show up.

0:33:04.0 Julie: Yes, and that your money and your mouth have the same action, don't forget that. When you're making contributions, when you're doing all those things, what you say and what you do have to match.

0:33:18.5 Torin: Yeah, Becky, I'm gonna mispronounce her name, Becky Frankiewicz. She's the president over at the Manpower Group, she talks about celebrating endings during this great realization. She doesn't call it resignation, a great realization. She says, "At Manpower, they are encouraging their clients to celebrate endings, meaning, these are things that we're not going to do anymore, and let's celebrate them. Things like putting work over health, putting job over family, and she also talks about celebrating the ending of minimum and maximum wage for a required wage. That's one of those things that every single leader, every single CEO can stand up and talk about. Listen, we are going to do every single thing that we can to make sure that pay equity is rooted in our organization, period. We're not going to be worried about the stock price, we're not going to be worried about dividends for our shareholders, we are going to be worried about our employees, taking care of our employees. I so appreciate Becky Frankiewicz and that celebrating endings. And I just wonder, Julie, what's something that you would celebrate ending? What would be one thing that you would add to her list? I know I'm putting you on the spot, but what would be one thing that you would absolutely celebrate that we not do anymore?

0:35:07.5 Julie: I would celebrate, I think, the end of fear and risk in terms of how we think about hiring and thinking about beginning to celebrate the humans on the other end of that hiring.

0:35:25.4 Torin: The humans that we are... That are on the other end of that hiring. Okay. I would celebrate... Mine is a little two-fold, I think I would celebrate not discounting the wisdom that those over 40 and 45 can add to the workplace, and on the other end, not discounting the wisdom that those that are 25 can add to the workplace. I think that we as good leaders, we should be working even harder to try to bring these generations to a point of collaboration and sharing and respect, mutual respect, versus, perpetuating that they're young and what's that word, impatient, they're young, impatient, they want it all right now. We would do ourselves better if we were able to not classify them and categorize them in that way, and then we would also do better to not suggest that people my age, grey hair in my beard, or that I'm stodgy, I'm a one-trick pony, that I'm set in my ways. I would absolutely love celebrating separating the generations inside of the workplace, that would be something I'd celebrate.

0:37:06.9 Julie: I love it. So, let's continue that celebration with our Her Voice segment this week.

0:37:12.9 Torin: Absolutely, in Her Voice, we are always trying to amplify women that are making moves. Who do we have, J?

0:37:19.5 Julie: So, we have Randolph Caldecott, Medal Award winner for American picture book to the book written by Andrea Wang called Watercress. It follows a young Chinese-American girl living in mostly White Town in rural Ohio in the mid-70s.

0:37:37.1 Torin: In the mid-70s, we also celebrate this former Air Force Veteran, former Googler, who is now the VP of Global TA at Reddit. Her name is Carla H. McIntosh. Hats off to Miss McIntosh who joined Reddit in January of 2022, and they actually have a leader who did something after George Floyd stepped down from the board of directors and said, "We gotta make way for other representations, other inclusion, and so I want my seat on the board to go to a person that has a different hue than me, a different experience than me." So shout out to Carla. I'm sorry. Yeah, Carla H McIntosh who joined Reddit in January of this year.

0:38:26.6 Julie: Yeah, and a fun one to wrap up Her voice for this week, TikTok creator, Addison Ray, who has parlayed her social media presence into a movie and a makeup line among other things, and Forbes has her earning eight and half million dollars last year.

0:38:46.5 Torin: So yeah, that's like her voice, like leveraging the platform in a way... You got TikTok?

0:38:58.5 Julie: Oh yeah.

0:39:00.7 Torin: Okay, alright, I'ma have to go check it out. Maybe you gotta send me one of your TikToks, let me see if you deserve to be making a couple of them, you know zeros that she's rocking, 'cause I don't have a TikTok, so I don't know.

0:39:12.3 Julie: I don't make the TikToks, I just watch the TikToks.

0:39:14.2 Torin: You watch the TikToks. Okay, got it. Quote for the week, "It seemed that the world stood still, I looked out and I spoke to it, I haven't looked back." That was Amanda Gorman reflecting on her reading of the poem, The Hill We Climb, at President Joe Biden's inauguration one year ago, and why she almost didn't do it. Quick mention before we get out of here, Y-Vonne Hutchinson, she has a book that is coming out, How to Talk to Your Boss About Race, it is promised to build on her years of work in the field, helping employees have effective and powerful conversations with leaders and to help them to make a difference. She's also going to be at the Tech Equity Collaborative, hosting a free webinar on February 2nd of this year. It's going to happen at noon pacific time, go over to the tech equity collaborative and see if you can get some information about who they are, what they are doing, and... Well, I'm trying to see if I can get their Twitter handle... Their Twitter handle is T E... Oh, I love this one. Their Twitter handle is TECollab... TECollab. How sweet is that?

0:40:40.7 Julie: Alright, quick name drop for this week, Grammy award-winning and Hall of Fame musician and polio survivor Neil Young, who put a stake in the ground with Spotify this week asking them to remove all of his music from their service until they stop supporting misinformation on vaccinations called out specifically the Joe Rogan show.

0:41:04.3 Torin: We start and end the same exact way, I close reminding each and every one of you to share the pod with your digital tribe and to find your voice, be a better human, let's create better culture, better teams, better workplaces for now J and I are ghosts.

0:41:22.7 Julie: See ya...